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Registrant Search, is it right or wrong?
November 11th, 2007 by 
Jay Westerdal
A lot of people are asking me to take Registrant Search down. Clearly this tool has a lot of power and people are pissed that it is available. People can abuse the tool and do a lot of investigating that one can argue they shouldn’t be allowed to. So the question I have to ask myself is do I keep it up. I guess the best way to decide is to discuss it openly and see if I can form an opinion that would lead to some action that people are begging for.
I am going to allow anyone to make the case either way in the comments below for removing it or keeping it. Your comments will not be censored but should be factually based. If you can convince me to take it down and you have clear argument why, which is articulated well you may very well convince me to make a change or take it down completely. Here is one of the many comments I received on my blog about it.
Comment from my blog that started this post:
I don’t know if you realize Jay, but your new tool (that tell who owns how many domains) is a major threat to many people’s personal safety from crooks. It is very depressing that someone can get that kind of info about every domainer. Please take a moment to think about the potential devastating impact of such tool or innocent domainers. Why do the entire world need to know which domainer has how many domains. Its no one’s business in my opinion. Your tool may perhaps even be illegal as it invades privacy of people.
Please take it down……its not worth it if because of your tool some domainer or his family is exposed to threats.
I hope you care about the domainer community and just do the right thing.
So should I take it down or keep it? I will post the best argument on both sides and make a call on it. If you don’t like the tool, supply your best argument or forever hold your peace.
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Posted in Registrant Search |
November 11th, 2007 at 2:33 pm
Jay,
It is really hurting your brand as it put domain owners, your clients, at added risk. Myself, we use privacy on our domains and I would suggest anyone else to do the same.
I would say take it off.
Cheers
Sahar
November 11th, 2007 at 2:45 pm
As we all know domains can be very valuable. In essence you are giving people access to my bank account. For me this is the case as I have almost all my money in domains.
You are telling them how much I am worth. You are making me a target, not only for domain theft, but also for extortion and lawsuits.
Besides from criminals the only people who have a use for this tool are lawyers. Being a multiple domain owner put you at a disadvantage in almost all cases. It doesn’t matter if you have generics or not, you will be labeled a cybersquatter and most judges can’t differentiate between domainers and cybersquatters.
Legit domainers have no use for the tool. If I want a domain or domains I do a whois lookup or a mass whois lookup and contact the owner. I am 100% sure that domainers are not buying this info. The only people buying this info are crooks and lawyers.
This tool is bad news for all domainers and good news for crooks and lawyers.
Lately, I have been fighting more and more battles for generic domains. I am involved in a lawsuit right now where this tool is being used against me. Yes, I own some TM domains, but the domain I am being sued over is generic in my opinion.
I suspect that the vast majority of domainers are like me and have mixed portfolios. What is a TM and what isn’t a TM is often a grey area.
Let all domainers be warned; it is just a matter of time before this tool is used against you.
For example, Frank Schilling is not a cybersquatter he is a domainer, but I bet you could go through his domains and find 100 or 1000 quasi trade marks. A smart lawyer would only place those into evidence and hence be able to paint Frank as a cybersqatter. Believe me this goes a long way in the eyes of a judge.
On anohter note, not everyone lives in a safe country like the US. In the Eastern Europe if you have a lot of money you get targeted, Period, no exceptions believe me I know. Using this tool the mob can figure out exactly what I have in my “bank account.”
Also if I was a domain Hijacker I could use this tool to target the best victims. Almost any email address can be cracked, so why not crack the email of someone who has 1000 great domains. This is a time saver for theives. Or in reverse lets say I crack a email that for a domain I want. I can use your tool to find out what other domains the guy owns.
I guess it comes down to who is paying the bills for you Jay. Is it domainers or lawyers. As a domainer I won’t see you as a friend to the community if this tool stays up.
November 11th, 2007 at 2:46 pm
Well Jay,
I can understand where some people would be concerned about whois privacy issues. But one single whois record is all it takes to make public that persons contact and location so they really should be using some form of whois privacy protection if that’s their concern (and I do believe that can be a legitimate concern for many of us).
You could offer to filter out and not disclose (out of house) certain owners who object to the tool being used on their own domains and info to cover that base.
Actually, I’m more convinced most of the complaints are based on the registrants not willing to disclose the number and the names of the domains and sites they own, run and control. And I can see that point, too. But again that info is available to anyone willing to do the detective work and data mining necessary to find most of it.
I think their main objection is your registrant search tool works so well. And I think they are forgetting all the locally cached data you have built up over the years to arrive at the results and instead believe you can search outside your system in real time to locate all that info.
I think the tool is still something you should make available. I think law enforcement and HomeLand Security should have access to it. They’ll have access to it anyway through the subpenea process. And I would think you would still have it at your disposal even if you took it down publicly.
Finally, I think it’s kinda cool that when someone does a domaintools look up on one of my sites they see I own a large number of other sites. But I hate it when it shows a very large number where a whois privacy service appears as owner. But then, again, that’s good though as it shows whois privacy works there, too.
November 11th, 2007 at 2:47 pm
Agreed with the above. It is a shame you are letting money and profit ruin DomainTools.
November 11th, 2007 at 2:59 pm
Registrant Search potentially supplies information that the registrars themselves don’t even make available (indeed they aren’t obliged to do so in their registrar contracts): HISTORIC whois data, on a massive scale.
If somebody’s smart enough to pick some of the domains I own and Whois them - and I chose not to use Whois Privacy - then of course they’ll get to find out who’s behind those domains. But that doesn’t give them any data about domains which I USED to own but don’t any more - that information can’t be provided by the current registrar nor by any other party but yourself.
Similarly, if I moved over to Whois Privacy a couple of years back, nobody can find my name and address from current records - yet digging using your service they may well be able to derive them.
The worst sin of all is that there’s no blanket opt-out available. Services that archive information, from Archive.org to Alexa or Google, all have mechanisms whereby that archived information can be eradicated by the people it refers to. As a custodian of archived Whois information, you should at the very very least be offering a similar simple opt-out service (including on a NAME basis i.e. I can specify my name and get all domains that reference me as a registrant deleted from your current and historic databases - yes, DELETED not just put on some exclusion lists).
Basically, since registrars themselves don’t archive historic Whois data and neither does anyone but you (in easily available, public facing format) domain owners haven’t known there’s anything they needed to “protect” themselves from, on the historic side - until now. You’ve created a brand new specter for them.
Do the right thing: take the service down and ERADICATE the data (if you don’t then what happens next month or next year when the temptation to put something similar together is too strong?)
November 11th, 2007 at 3:00 pm
As much as I enjoy finding out what great domains other people own I still think it should be taken down.
It could “potentially” be dangerous for those (lucky/early) indivduals and their families that own millions of dollars worth of names… People rob banks for far less !!
I can see why people would be very concerned.
Then there’s also the “potential” problem of it being used by lawyers aiming to proove bad intent or those that attempt to reverse hijack a name !
Great Tool but I can’t imagine that it would not be abused !
My vote is Take it Down
JMO
November 11th, 2007 at 3:01 pm
I see Sahar and begone’s points and no arguements there. Again Whois Privacy fixes that for the most part.
Yet, I thought of another good use. A couple sites I own are high profile in the niche I’m involved in. Say ten years down the road some of my early sites are still registered in my name and I’ve forgot that fact but people I don’t want to see that info relate those early sites to me.
I could use registrant search to find those.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:02 pm
I also agree with the above comments, in some ways this seems like an invasion of our privacy?
next thing you`ll know il be hiding behind post boxes making sure im not being stalked for my domains..
November 11th, 2007 at 3:03 pm
Whois privacy costa money. If you have a lot of domains it adds up.
Also, I have not used the tool but it appears to offer archived “old” whois info. Whois privacy won’t help with that.
I just ran a search on an email address that I used to use but currently have no domains under and a bunch of stuff showed up. I assume those are old whois records. They would have to be. so hence the whois privacy argument is worthless.
I personally felt duped when Jay came out with “Domain History.” I used to use whois-source back when it was all free and If I had kown all my whois searches were being recorded to later be used against me I wouldn’t have used it.
Mind you, I find the Domian History useful but it shouldn’t be abused. The registrant search is an abuse of this tool.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:12 pm
spambait85738
Whois privacy doesn’t fix the problem. I just searched on my home address which I have not used in the whois in 5 years and got almost 1000 records.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:13 pm
I don’t care, many times the info is not accurate anyway.
is up to you.
thx
November 11th, 2007 at 3:22 pm
clearly you’re violating WHOIS policy by caching and farming all results for profit. It’s because of this very tool that I’ll be canceling my whois subscription and stop doing business w/DomainTools..
Clearly take it down..
November 11th, 2007 at 3:29 pm
Yes, Begone (and others), Thanks for reminding me of the historical data that isn’t affected by later Whois Privacy purchases. I just glossed right over that and didn’t give it a thought.
And you are right about Whois Privacy being expensive. That’s why I don’t use it yet and dread the day I’ll need it.
Maybe Jay might consider offering a real good bulk Whois Privacy service that’s extremely reasonable. But I doubt anyone would purchase that service from a service that also makes the unpaid, unprotected data public. Kinda unethical or somrthing there. And I don’t see Jay as unethical.
The data collected is Jay’s property and I don’t see where he should feel he needs to discontinue his internal use but a easy opt-out should be immediately installed and He should consider taking it off line publically after everyone weighs in on it.
Another suggestion: It might be possible to add a text record to every whois record to force opt-out that record and any associated dns records. Then registrars could offer that for free or the same txt record could be added to the DNS records to recursively opt-out all records from Registrant Search.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:36 pm
I agree with the above comments that RegistrantSearch should be discontinued. I have spent some years researching and registering generic keyword domains for the industry that my company operates in. Not all domains are in current use, some are for planned future developments.
I do not employ domain privacy due to concerns about domain hijacking (where I understand lack of real registrant info can be an issue in these cases). With RegistrantSearch, any business competitor can pay to have a report of all domains my company owns. It wouldn’t take a genius to look at that list and figure out my company’s future direction or plans.
If my competitor wanted to sit down and spend (a lot of) time trying to second-guess where I might be going and checking domains and Whois info, then good luck to them. To have this information handed over to them withins minutes for a fee, really upsets me. There is no doubt that ReistrantSearch would be widely used for industrial espionage if it is allowed to continue.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:42 pm
Give me the option to get the list of YOUR names, with non hidden, or take it down. That simple.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:46 pm
So where is the explanation about why this tool was introduced? For whom? With what consultation with official bodies? With what safeguards in place? With what mechanisms for the correction of inaccurate data? With what provisions for protecting the vulnerable?
Some people who aren’t domainers have to register multiple domains on behalf of very different clients. This tool can put them in a very awkward position.
Also, peoples names or addresses may have been falsely used. You should know that credit blacklisting is sometimes done on the basis of address alone, so I hate to imagine the implications of referencing large numbers of domains to physical addresses.
If a given domain is subject to political or financial pressure, this makes it possible for those applying the pressure to seek soft spots on other domains. I suspect some will cancel domains or transfer them.
Until there is a very clear case FOR this tool and a clear legal and supervisory framework for it, it should be withdrawn, probably forever.
November 11th, 2007 at 3:54 pm
If you do take it down, it’d be cool if you left the part about how many domains the person has in the Whois. It’s quite an interesting number sometimes…
November 11th, 2007 at 3:59 pm
I say keep the tool up. A few considerations,
-It is public not private information.
-The idea isn’t new- dialog has offered it for a while this is simply that first time it has been done well.
-As far as it aiding domain theft goes, it probably exposes names held by thieves as much as it makes spotting names to steal easier.
-If domaintools scrap I would think someone else is going to offer the same thing anyway within the next few years.
The main reason I think domainers do not like it is because people simply do not want their names being known in terms of it being used in UDRP’s hearings. This is clearly a tool for “the other side”. Protecting domainers doesn’t justify a tool like this not existing in view.
The one thing I would like to see changed though is for this tool to simply be offered free to silver members.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:08 pm
1/ Domain names are now very valuable assets and you are exposing owners of premium domain names and their families.
Any scammer, thief, bad guy… can target a search on his neighborhood to find a place to attack, ransom or even kill in order to make sure the owner won’t claim his domain(s) back as soon as the threat for him or his family has gone.
That’s what a lot of rapists do : kill victims to make sure they can’t testify.
Killing is the ultimate solution as it’s so easy for someone to prove he was the “Real owner” and then get the domain(s) back.
With Registrant Search, this is no longer a safe world for our kids and family.
Considering domains as very valuable assets, no one should be able to know exacly what someone owns, especially when owners are INDIVIDUALS, not companies.
No one has access to the nature and number of stocks an individual owns, whether he owns, gold, silver, platinium, a bank account in Switzerland, the Caymans or anywhere else and the exact amount on bank accounts.
This is PRIVATE DATA that needs to remain private, not public.
This is no different for the domain space.
For the safety of those who have invested everything in the domain space when it was not hot, i’m asking you to take down registrant search.
These people, investors, have to be now rewarded for the financial risks they took several years ago.
We need to be rewarded, not exposed.
2/ Don’t really know how you get this data.
Is it directly from registries or from registrars ?
If that’s from registrars, do you have written consent from every single registrar (there are several hundreds) ?
If you don’t, your tool is in complete violation of every registrars’ Terms Of Service (TOS) that states : “The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Whois Data is expressly prohibited without our prior written consent”.
3/ Do you know privacy rights are much stronger in some places outside the US, i’m especially thinking about Europe ?
If this threat to privacy rights is allowed in the USA then why don’t you only show US registrants ?
Each country has its own legislation and your tool is illegal in lots of countries.
4/ A domain name can say a lot about the sexual, racial or political leanings of the person registering it, so Registrant Search is the opened door to every kind of discrimination and man hunts.
Two examples :
1/ Any employer can screen candidates applying for a job to see if they ever registered a domain name.
Let’s imagine someone is gay and registered the domain http://www.iamgay.com
If the employer is anti-gay then Registrant Search can be the cause of a sexual job discrimination.
2/ Worse : Registrant Search can be used by authorities in non-democratic countries to search for activists and put them in jail.
Correct me if i’m wrong Jay : combined to “Whois History”, even if a person no longer owns activist domains, there’s a cached Whois info that will retrieve them.
Let’s say a college boy registered a http://www.thiscompanysucks.com or a http://www.governorXsucks.com domain name.
Even 10 years later, long after he no longer owns these domains and may have changed his opinion regarding this company or governor, this guy will be forever labeled as an activist as there is no time limit when this data is used.
And buying Whois privacy service won’t help.
It’s just lost money.
5/ What if someone impersonates us, registering dozens of hate or TM domain names using our name and address ?
What are the safeguards ?
How will we prove we never registered these domains ???
Registrant search is one of the WORST EVER threat for (digital) privacy rights and should be taken down immediately.
When you launched the service, i read people saying the tool was great as it would help them retrieve the complete list of domains they own.
With all the existing tools, i mean databases, softwares…, how can someone forget about the domains they own ?
Unless they are amateurs, domainers exactly know the domains they own, when they are set to expire and even if they didn’t, registrars are required by ICANN to send an email once a year to verify contact info (nice way to get the whole list once a year).
Most registrars also offer auto-renew services.
Consolidating your portfolio at a single registrar is definitely the best way to ensure you won’t lose or forget a single domain name.
Jay, for the safety of everyone, take Registrant Search down.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:25 pm
Yes, we need to be told the source of this data.
Another concept this collides with is that data should have a limited life or it poses the risks happydomainer has just described - an angry or drunk registration can follow a person around forever.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:41 pm
Hello Jay,
First of all, I will say that you are one of the smartest person in the domain industry. Your site and its tools speak volumes about your innovativeness and originality. Everyone was greatly impressed by the auction format that you introduced few months ago. So in essence you do set the standard sometimes for others to follow.
I use your site many times and its very handy for looking many things.
So thank you very much for providing great tools to us all domainers.
Regarding the registrant search tool:
Is it a great tool? Yes it is.
Can it be used for legitimate purposes by others? Yes it can be.
Then why do we fear it?:
Well, not everyone is going to use this tool for good purposes.
Someone (lets say a crook) can do a registrant search and know exactly how many domains a person owns, where he lives, etc etc. That kind of information can then be used to threaten the registrant in various ways which I won’t go in to details here as I don’t want to provide additional ideas to anyone.
I have gotten calls from people accusing me why I have a domain if I am not using it (like they think it should be used), not only that people have gotten upset when they find out I own few extensions of the same domain. And so on…………Now if someone finds out that a domainer has 100 domains and then their temperature really boils up. They think domainer is doing something very wrong. Not many people understand that the domainer has spent years of long ours thinking and coming up with ideas for domains and spent thousands of dollars on acquiring and renewing those domains. No one knows that domainers family has suffered for years while he was always tied to the computer looking to register his/her ideas. Some people think its their birth right to have it now for registration fee, what the domainer has for many years.
I think you have every right to offer any tool that you want, but this tool does makes us domainers a little uneasy. In my view, apart from its legitimate purposes, the registrant search tool also enables crooks to do crookedness:)
This tool has been discussed on forums in great depth when it came out, and you can see for yourself that majority felt that you should not offer it, or may be find a way to not make it available for every Joe (appologize if someone’s name is Joe here) on the street.
Again, thanks for all the tools you provide.
I hope I have not unintentionally said something incorrect above. Please correct me if you find something off the mark as English is my second language btw
Looking forward to other responses and your final decision.
Regards.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:49 pm
I say take it down. The reasons why should be pretty clear to any domainer without having to explain them.
If you do decide to keep it up despite all the negative feedback, please provide an opt out option, free.
November 11th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
This is how I feel.
It’s a tool, that, in the right hands…can be used for good.
In the wrong hands…it can be used for bad.
Someone is going to make a new one, if you take it down.
Someone is going to make an alternative, if you keep it up.
Keep it up. If someone has to use one, it mine as well be yours. Domaintools is a trusted source.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:03 pm
Nobody can make the same tool. Jay has archived whois that nobody has access to anymore.
I just did a search on Sahar sarid and found 15 records crica 2000. If I bought those I would get his old email and home address. Using that info I could do more searches and find out almost all his good domains.
Frank Schilling turned up 205 records.
Also note that guys like Frank and Sahar used to register Trade mark domains buy accident on the drop. That info could be used against them in UDRP’s and court.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:04 pm
Leave it up. Those with malicious intent can get this information through other means anyway. It is publicly available information and you are merely providing an interface to this data.
If domain registrant’s don’t like it, they have no one to blame but themselves. Once you put information in the WHOIS, or anywhere on the Internet for that matter, it is there permanently.
The people complaining seem to have grown comfortable with their “security through obscurity” that they were living with. Now they complain that someone aggregates and provides an interface to PUBLIC data.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:07 pm
@begone123 “Jay has archived whois that nobody has access to anymore.”
You have proof of this? Again more security through obscurity. Be advised there are other MANY other parties with historically archived WHOIS data. To think Jay is the only one is absurd. He is the only one providing an interface to this data that anyone can access, but certainly not the only one who has this data.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:22 pm
jnigro024,
Jay’s data comes from whois lookups on his site. Back in the day there were not too many whois lookups and Whois-source got a fair amount of lookups. Plus they offered things like domain monitoring free. In fact I used to use it.
No body starting today would have access to this historical whois data. I’m not saying it doesn’t exist out there, of course it does. but no one except the government could compile it.
Even jay’s data is incomplete. I know for a fact that Frank Schilling had thousands of domains with under real info but Jay’s tool only shows up 205. However, If I wanted to drill down I could find more I am sure.
I stand by what I said. The dangerous part of this tool, the archived data cannot be recreated.
Also note that back in the day. Things were more innocent. When I started registering domains I put my real name and address in the whois. Man was that a mistake. Death threats, stalkers, lawsuits, I have paid a heavy price.
Fast fwd 8 years and you have Russian and Iranian and Chinese Computer gangs who are going to love this tool. I am no sage but one thing I have learned is that I can’t think like an evil man or a criminal. Those people are going to come up with ways to use this tool that we can’t even think of.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:28 pm
The only people who should fear a registrant search are those with trademark skeletons in the closet. And unfortunately, even some of us who are “prominent” in the industry play games with shell companies where some store troublesome domains. Don’t play with fire and you won’t have to worry about someone exposing you. And if you’re already archived, then this is the price you pay for playing with fire.
This whole argument that someone is going to look up one of my domains, then see all the domains I own, then stalk or kill me because I deal in domains or own many domains…is uhh rather wacky. Should only the world care that much about you.
If Jay doesn’t do this, someone else will because there entrepreneurs will deliver what the market demands. However, regardless of who provides this service, the end result will be boosting demand for whois privacy, which I’m sure the registrars like.
Josh
November 11th, 2007 at 5:29 pm
happydomainers Asks: When you launched the service, i read people saying the tool was great as it would help them retrieve the complete list of domains they own.
With all the existing tools, i mean databases, softwares…, how can someone forget about the domains they own ?
Hee Hee. “Hey, this is cool, who owns this site? Wow, it’s me!!!”
November 11th, 2007 at 5:30 pm
Wise man points out:
“”Mark Monitor, Name.com, and Thompson and Thompson all have similar services that they have made it available and also promoted to IP attorneys for years. I attended an INTA show and everyone already has this tool. I think most domainers have a problem with the service because they can actually see it now. Putting the cap back on the bottle doesn’t stop the genie once it is out. My knew favorite quote is, “The Truth wants to be free”.”"
The difference between those others and Jay’s is Jay makes it accessible and popularizes it..I’ve never gotten any hate mail.. not in years. Haven’t tried the service.. just been so busy ..but I could see the privacy concerns as word of its existence starts to spread virally and to neer’do’wells
November 11th, 2007 at 5:46 pm
There should be an opt-out option. The information should continue to be logged privately for law enforcement purposes. I own over 50 domains (Domaintools says only 33, however) and I have no problem with this tool. All of my domains are for real websites and none of them are parked/squatted. Many of the domains I only registered to protect from parkers/squatters. I would love nothing more than to be contacted (via the details in whois) by someone who would like to put one of my domains to a good use.
Just start a real business on the Internet and you won’t have to worry about this silliness. I don’t think any Amazon rain forest enthusiasts complain about Amazon.com Inc.’s use of their namesake’s domain.
November 11th, 2007 at 5:56 pm
The legal issue here for Jay, something he may have already been threatened with is:
He’s collecting information from registrars who prohibit the collection, selling, compiling, etc of their information:
For example, enom says:
Access to eNom’s Whois information is for informational purposes only. eNom makes this information available “as is,” and does not guarantee its accuracy. The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of eNom’s Whois information in its entirety, or a substantial portion thereof, is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of eNom By accessing and using our Whois information, you agree to these terms.
Someone like Moniker might come along and say, ok stop selling our information or we’re going to sue you.
November 11th, 2007 at 6:28 pm
Jay,
Please, leave it up. There are so many domainers doing things that they should not, and they will lead the charge to take it down. Domain Industry reputation? The only reputation this industry has is a bad one. We have people that pass themselves off as having integrity, and doing unethical and maybe illegal things behind closed doors. Then there jokers create awards, and they give them to others like themselves, or to those that they hope will legitimize them. This whole industry continuously turns its eyes away from what ultimately hurts the domain industry. This industry smells like a rats nest and is in the gutter. Your quote, as quoted by the Conceptualist:
“Michael Arrington openly called domainers thugs and racketeers about 5 months on his blog. Outsiders in general don’t know what is going on when they look into our industry. Even someone like Mr. Arrington who used to be employed as a CEO inside our industry. We need to change the way outsiders perceive everything about domains and promote values that increase the integrity of the entire system for everyone.”
You could not be more right. Please leave the tool up, and it will help shine the light on those that preach one thing and do another in the dark. This tool will make the rats scurry. SHINE THAT LIGHT!
November 11th, 2007 at 6:30 pm
Why don’t you try to have it both ways? Take it down as a public tool but charge something obscenely outrageous for the trademark attorneys who want the data.
— Bret
November 11th, 2007 at 6:31 pm
Once someone uses this tool for any of the malicious reasons already outlined, the victim is gonna sue the sh_t out you for being the source of the data that was used.
November 11th, 2007 at 6:59 pm
I am following this discussion with great interest and the folks who are against this tool made many valid points, but I wanted to share a couple of observations that might put me on the unpopular side…
Let’s put them out there for discussion.
1) Every domaineer wants domains to be recognized as “real estate” with all the rights and privileges that entails.
Well, any piece of real estate and its owner’s information and the size of their mortgage, valuation for tax purposes, and the ownership and title history is publicly accessible information. If this information was “hidden” for privacy reasons, you could kiss goodbye to the modern mortgage finance industry as we know it as well as intelligent planning for development and building.
I am not sure if real estate IS the right analogy but if it is, then “real” real estate suggest that there should be more information available, not less.
2) Jay is not causing the problems with poor security at registrars. Someone trying to steal a valuable domain can attack and try to crack an email anyway. This is an argument for better registrar security, not worse WhoIs information.
3) Even besides WhoIs Privacy, there are plenty of ways to protect personal privacy. For a few hundred dollars up front and less than 100 dollars a year anyone can register an LLC to hold their domains and post office box as a mailing address. So I am struggling to understand who these people are who have $XXX,XXX to $X,XXX,XXX in domains but are apparently using their personal names and home addresses in the whois records. Really???
Let me tell you, if that is what you are doing there are far more important reasons than Jay’s tool(like personal liability protection) for you to go put an LLC in place immediately.
Likewise, if you are that concerned about your questionable TM domains, put them in a different company. I am pretty sure that would take care of the UDRP issue.
4) I think it might be fair to give people the opportunity to opt out of being in this database for names they no longer own or are no longer the registrant for. Let’s say someone used a home address in the past that they are no longer using, perhaps they should be allowed to hide it.
Though again I am not sure how this is different than personal information that is available for real estate, but I could be convinced of this point.
Anyway, that is my 2 cents
November 11th, 2007 at 7:06 pm
What a shit head.
What is your motivation for such antics.
This site is history to me.
November 11th, 2007 at 7:38 pm
Keep the tool.
If you’re all so frightened of killers, scammers, and crooks, get a P.O. box ($120.00 a year), use an non-identifying email address, and company name.
If Jay doesn’t keep the tool, someone unsavory will develop it and will quite likely will use it against domainers.
This is NOT really private information anyway; if someone wants it bad enough, he/she will get it, probably through the courts. I know someone whose Whois Privacy info was rather unceremoniously unmasked just because someone was “pi$$ed off” and simply asked the registrar, who rolled over and gave it out willy nilly.
This tool represents one bell that can NEVER be unrung.
Get over it, prepare your info accordingly, and move on.
Ms Domainer
November 11th, 2007 at 8:16 pm
Jay, I’ve read some of the comments (but unfortunately I don’t have time to read them all).
My vote goes to keeping the tool.
Not sure if this will help or hurt the case, but I’m the owner of http://www.CertGuard.com, I research (on a daily basis) the heathen that plague the IT Industry with their illegal braindumps and hired-gunmen (proxy test taking) services. The information provided by the registrant search is a great help to me and the millions of Certified IT Professionals that I’m fighting for.
November 11th, 2007 at 8:29 pm
NO NO NO NO NO NO!
Western society has thrived because of open information. Keeping domain registrations obscured is no different than allowing property ownership to be hidden (in the United States it is not). If someone is concerned about their privacy, the Post Office rents boxes for less than $40/ year. That is not expensive. Private ($9/ year) registrations are not necessary for domainers . . . they can always get a PO Box.
Democratic societies exist and thrive with open information. If people want to hide in the shadows, they probably have something to hide.
The Registrant Search is an amazing, and innovative tool that can help clean up this industry. PLEASE KEEP IT AVAILABLE.
November 11th, 2007 at 8:36 pm
People who say “keep the tool” generally don’t seem to be making a distinction between CURRENT and HISTORIC Whois information.
CURRENT Whois information can be obtained in all sorts of ways, and when privacy issues rear their ugly head the use of Whois Privacy or a PO Box will take care of the issue as far as the CURRENT Whois.
The huge can of worms is the HISTORICAL whois, which is certainly NOT widely available (and not accessible to the “general public” at all except via Registrant Search) That is where the real problems lie. If the tool has to stay up at all - and as I’ve already stated, my reasoned preference is to have it removed - at least remove the HISTORICAL data so that a registrant’s past history can’t come back to haunt them.
An example (one of many issues): 10 years ago they had some TM names which they dropped several years back having thought better of that side of things, but with this tool that might still be used in a “pattern of abuse” lawsuit challenge against a generic currently in their possession.
UPDATE BY JAY: Actually, All whois on my site is historical. Once you view it as output it is immediately historical. There is no such thing as current whois. That act of looking at it is historical, perhaps 3 seconds historical. Who should govern was it historical enough? 3 seconds historical, 10 seconds historical, 10 days historical, and now we start the slipper slope.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:22 pm
@MsDomainer
>If you’re all so frightened of killers, scammers, and crooks, get a P.O. box ($120.00 a year), use an non-identifying email address, and company name.
I think you’re missing the point here. The tool shows all *historical data*. Changing your registration details now will not make a difference.
Some of us have been around on the net for many years, well before WHOIS provacy was even a concern or available for purchase.
November 11th, 2007 at 9:43 pm
Most of these comments are completely off base. The question is not about the “Historical Data” tool, which actually is rather useful and benign.
The issue is with the “Registrant Search” feature that encompasses all of the current and historical data and ties them to a single registrant/entity/email/etc…
November 11th, 2007 at 10:03 pm
——————————-
The issue is with the “Registrant Search” feature that encompasses all of the current and historical data and ties them to a single registrant/entity/email/etc…
——————————-
Correct, that is the issue. There are a lot of skeletons in a lot of closets and THAT is what is scaring people.
November 11th, 2007 at 10:40 pm
The problem is that this tool is being shoved up all of our collective backsides without permission.
In plain English, it is legalized rape.
That really is NOT so legal…
NONE of Jay’s archival tool is technically legal, for he violated the Registrars first by harvesting the data… read the headers on any whois output… tsk tsk…
Jay’s new “REgistrant SEarch” tool opens up any domainer to a blatant ass raping by attorneys, whom this tool is obviously intended for. Jay, at least have the balls to tell us who is likely to use the tool… don’t bs yourself (’cause you aint foolin us) by saying “oh yeah… big companies need this to keep track of thier own names, yadda yadda, widdy widdy…” That dog won’t hunt and you damned well know it. This tool is for any overly zealous attorney to use when trying to establish a “pattern of behavior” regarding TM names, or even worse… some sort of moral discoloring… think about it.
I used to catch names for people. I ran a drop service. Hell, I was the DropCatcher! Ok, fine you say…. but wait… while I was collecting names and then waiting for payment, later to distribute said names, they were in one of MY accounts… So we fast forward a few years later… Some intrepid attorney decides he’s going to “Tool” me… and what does he find? Well, a lot of you here payed me small fortunes for some of the most disgusting, foul, degrading, and shamelessy shocking adult domains you could imagine! And some of you paid me to catch TM domains, or typos of TM domains, or just plain objectionable domains that don’t fit into the above categories…
So What, you say?
Ok, remember Mr. “Out to Make a Name for Himself” Attorney? Well, he decides he is going to “Tool” me because he wants something I have NOW… and guess what? If you did deep enough, he’ll find every one of the above mentioned domains… Does he still have to really “prove” his current case on merrits, or am I now seen as a shameless miscreant pervert typosquatting cybersquatter who has it coming to him anyway?
My God! It is bad enough that Jay has supplied them with a deep probing tool… I’ve just realized my friends are going to hold me down while it is used on me!
ok, ok… the above is not going to happen because I was a little smarter than that… even back then. But if one did know what to search for in those whois records… ohhh boy, how shocking!
Bottom line is this… The “Historical DAta” on particular names is very useful and actually can and has been used to prove true ownership of stolen names. The proliferation of “Private Whois” entries on names today is basically a loophole that is being abused anyway. Transparency on this was is still being debated on many different levels… Google “WhoIs Transparency” and have a gander at some of the positions… Bottom line, having the archived info on any “known” domain is a good thing.
But just being able to go “fishing” for all domains held at any time, either historical or current, by a single entity…. no valid purpose other than to directly violate that individual in some fashion.
November 11th, 2007 at 10:41 pm
I really do know how to spell better than that, sorry.
November 11th, 2007 at 10:43 pm
I know that in the end you’ll have to either take it down completely or change it such that it alleviates the problems highlighted by many before me. To me the historical whois is the most troublesome and potentially bringing littigations to your company. All you need to do is to weigh the benefits (including financial gains) of such service continuing to be provided vs. the danger of any future tarnishing of your company’s reputation (and the financial costs)through lawsuites.
Also, if the domainers are not your best customers and can afford to lose many of them, then keep the Registrant Search up: it only needs one bad thing to happen coming out from the info provided through Registrant Search tool and the hell can breake loose. If it’s worth the risk, then leave the service, if not…
November 11th, 2007 at 10:48 pm
a2, this isn’t about the “Historical Whois”, silly….
November 11th, 2007 at 11:05 pm
Some of you are far too trusting of Whois Privacy; registrars are under no obligation to protect your information. Read your terms of service. If they get an inkling that you might be doing something hinky, they’ll trumpet your information to anyone who even threatens to sue.
November 11th, 2007 at 11:34 pm
A whole lot of squirming going on above, and alot of weak nervous threats. This could be the most effective tool for the start of house cleaning in the domain business. Please keep it up.
November 12th, 2007 at 12:08 am
This tool will only drive everybody into Whois Privacy ==> more money for registrars. Shut the tool down. It will result in less transparency if everybody hides.
If you don’t want to shut it down, at least there should be a possibility to opt out (without having to pay you).
November 12th, 2007 at 12:44 am
Most of the people posting above against your Registrant Search tool would also vouch against your Domain History tool if they were given the opportunity to argument that. In fact it is pretty clear from reading them that they dislike Domain History just as much. Don’t be mislead by this very vocal minority of people that have a vested interest in you not providing these services either because they already have access to such information through other means and thus prefer to keep their edge over the commoners or because they think that they have reached a certain landmark in their domain career a don’t want others to get insight on their strategy or positioning for competitive reasons.
Please keep the Registrant Search tool running. This is a great service you are offering the domain community and a natural extension to the other excellent tools you provide.
November 12th, 2007 at 1:01 am
Jay:
With this tool you’re putting peoples lives at risk!
Let me explain further…
Hardcore criminals have the opportunity now to do research on premium domain holders and find out what more valuable domains they have in their portfolio.
If the amount of premium domains they can trace back to the owner and the associated value in their eyes is worth it - the decision to do an home invasion or kidnapping to force the domain owner to transfer the domains to a strawmans’s account and sell the domains or profit of them through other means is easily made.
You can argument how silly this might sound, but if you think about it for a second it’s not that silly at all.
People do the craziest things for money nowadays.
And it can be a very lucrative business now you can pin point your target victims with your service.
You may not be familiar with a case where criminals have used your tool?
But do you really want to wait for something like this to happen?
And if it happens…can you live with the guilt?
Because i sure hope you’re human enough to feel guilty by then and shut the service down…that is if you’re not convinced already and don’t want to live with the guilt of people getting hurt…through your service.
With great powers…comes great responsibility…
What are you going to do Jay?…tik…tak….tik…tak….
Time to decide!
November 12th, 2007 at 1:13 am
Jay
I say KEEP the registrant search facility, but perhaps tighten up security . I do NOT believe the many excuses that some of the other posters are putting up against the tool, what I think is that what they really dont like is the “little people” having an advantage over them (the holders of large numbers of domains). As long as you keep the details of who is obtaining the search results then that is as secure as it should be. If someone wanted to track any specific person without the tool they could easily do so.
I say ,do not cow tow to the wishes and bleatings of some of the larger domain holders , KEEP the registrant search facility, please.
November 12th, 2007 at 1:19 am
Jay
Just thinking further. If what some of the people above are really worried about is someone knowing their addresses (and I dont think it really is I think that is their excuse for objecting) then (a) that is their fault for not using a proxy or registering through an offshore company (b) you could remove addresses from the results (c) I think it very far fetched to say that someone is going to come around and force them to transfer their domains and then sell them.
November 12th, 2007 at 1:23 am
Jay,
I thing it shoud be removed. Whilst hte tool is useful;, I am not sure that people really need to know the full name and address of every domain holder.
Certainly it places individuals at risk from abuse, theft etc particularly where the full address is listed. It also could offer those undertaking identity theft further evidence that they are who they are not…!
Please remove this facility - it feeds into the ‘big brother’ mentality that we seem to face in this day and age and in no way ‘helps’.
If people want to get in touch then they have other means other than full name and full address posted through this facility.
With regards,
Gordon…
November 12th, 2007 at 1:25 am
This is completely false. I, for one, absolutely love the LINEAR Domain History tool. It is the all encompassing /past/present REGISTRANT SEARCH tool that is at issue. Make real comments on point if you really can… if not, we understand…
dw52714 Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 12:44 am
“Most of the people posting above against your Registrant Search tool would also vouch against your Domain History tool if they were given the opportunity to argument that. In fact it is pretty clear from reading them that they dislike Domain History just as much…”
Absolute rubbish
November 12th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Good Lord, People…
REGISTRANT SEARCH >>> THE TOPIC.
HISTORICAL WHOIS >>> NOT THE TOPIC.
GET IT???
November 12th, 2007 at 1:46 am
I think you should take this tool down immediately. It is a tremendous abuse of Whois information.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:02 am
A total shut down has low sense as another company will create a similar service tomorrow.
Don’t shut down the tool but do the following improvement:
LIMIT the search to CURRENT registrants and don’t search in WHOIS history!!! This way the ones that want to protect their privacy can use domain privacy services.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:09 am
It is funny how people are bringing up the issue about the “full name and address of domain holders” as if that has anything to do with your Registrant Search service. Jay is not publishing any more information than what is shown in the publically available Whois records. Every domain holder knows that the info they give when registering a name will be publicly available in Whois. “Professional” domain holders obviously know that and if they are worried about their privacy or personal safety (sic), they can register names through a corporate entity or use a Whois privacy service. That is the info that will show up in Whois and that same info will be picked up by DomainTools. So as I mentioned in my previous comment, what upsets people most is the Domain History feature because they may have used their personal address in the past or owned iffy domains (under their real name?). But then again, at the time of those regs, they were fully aware of the information being public, that it was recorded, and as “professionals” they were also aware that a number of parties were archiving the Whois database.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:16 am
cartoonz Says:
November 12th, 2007 at 1:28 am
Good Lord, People…
REGISTRANT SEARCH >>> THE TOPIC.
HISTORICAL WHOIS >>> NOT THE TOPIC.
————–
I’m sorry but there is a link between the two. For those posting about privacy concerns, whether of their personal information or the scope of their portfolio, they could easily switch all their names to Whois privacy and, without access to historical Whois that would yield registrant searches useless.
November 12th, 2007 at 2:23 am
Since the first domain I registered, almost 8 years ago, I never used anything besides a PO Box address, a phone I can change anytime, and my name, that is equal to hundreds of other people. Not because of any registrant search, but because anyone could check the whois of a single domain of mine.
And I don’t talk just about criminals, but from fans or crazy people in general. Whois info is accessible by everyone, so we must be careful with what we put there…
Nuno Oliveira
CatalogDomains.com
November 12th, 2007 at 4:17 am
KEEP THE SERVICE
As it has been said, in real life, many information are made public.
We use this service to trace fraudster and it’s very convenient.
I’m sure one don’t have to fear registrant search if business model is clean.
Furthermore, if you want to take care of your identity, you can already protect your regsitrant information through anonymization services.
In order to protect public information from being used by spammer, We only ask you to let this service as a pay-per-use service.
November 12th, 2007 at 4:20 am
If you are buying and selling domain names then you register them to your business address.
If you are running a business on the net then you register the name and address of the business (otherwise you are in breach of one the basic principles of the free trade system). In Europe you must give the name and geographical address of the business on the website.
If a fraudster has one site he may have many others so keep the tool
November 12th, 2007 at 5:06 am
The historical data offered by this tool is improperly cached from Whois, leaving domaintools open to litigation from victims.
Some of the unsympathetic comments on here about privacy clearly come from people with no experience of what can arise from rape, child abuse and criminal activity.
Non current (ie historical) Whois records were never meant to be available and can be used to trace family members and business associates, leading to the harassment, abuse and even murder of the victims, even after they have relocated.
We have been invited to post arguments, not just votes, so I invite those in favour of making this improper information available to explain why it is ok to sell improperly acquired data which puts others at risk.
Publicly available income data in Sweden had to be restricted due to similar concerns, and as I recall they have to publish the name of the party doing the search and it may not contain more than 10 items.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:30 am
People might forget that cybersquatting was not illegal prior to the Lanham Act of 1999. Prior to that time I was registering anything and everything that got traffic. The wasn’t grandfathered and I have a right to keep all those domains. At that time the word cybersquatting didn’t even exist.
Lately I have been gitting hit with UDRP’s for obviously generic domains and this tool will insure that I lose everyone of those UDRP’s.
Then there is the matter of lawsuits
I assume that for many people commenting being sued is just theoretical. For me it is not. I have had several large judgements against me brought about by several large companies willing to spend endless amounts of money on attorneys. I am currently being sued and this tool was used to track down a large portion of domains that I own. Screen shots of Jays tool were entered into evidence.
The poeple commenting saying keep the tool will never ever buy a report so they are just kidding themselves (have you seen the prices?). This report is for lawyers and ciminals. It is not a useful tool for domainers.
If you only own 100-200 domains maybe you don’t have any TM issues, but if you have a large portfolio you porbably do. And don’t forget the lawyers follow the money. IT lawyers are growing in number and they are coming after you next.
Whois privacy is useless. A lawyer will have your real name in address within a few days. PO Box is also useless, the USPS has to give a lawyer your name. Shell companies, LLC’s, none of that is going to help you when a real law firm comes after you. The only real answer is completely fake whois and even this has flaws. And before all you do-gooder chime in. There is no differnce between whois privacy and fake whois.
Also note that a lot of smart people don’t want to use whois privacy because it makes ownership hard to prove. Look at all the problems RegFlY customers who used whois privacy had. They had a hell of time trying to get there domains out of Regfly.
I also think Jay is going to have to take this tool down because he is violating the TOS of every registrar. They all say you can’t repackage their whois data. I’d say these registars have a obligation to protect their customers and may very well sue Jay.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:37 am
Jay,
Please keep and enhance the Registrant Search facility. If you give in on this issue then the next demand will be that all WhoIs History records be removed as well. There are government and private organizations that are also archiving WhoIs records but most of us will never have access to that information. Registrant Search empowers all Internet users equally.
The Internet was founded on the presumption of openness and transparency. Around the world today there are many governments and organizations who don’t like to the Internet and what total control over it. Should they feel threatened by the Internet? Yes, for the first time in human history we have the opportunity to create an organizational structure which is not hierarchal. If this bold experiment in human freedom is to succeed the Internet must be open and transparent. Let the governments and criminals find new rocks to hide under; I chose the sunlight.
Mike
November 12th, 2007 at 5:47 am
Keep the tool.
It seems that most of the commenters that are against this tool actually have a big problem with the justice systems of their countries and security of their registrars. Jay’s is not the party responsible for problems within those systems. This tool is not a burglary tool (by attorney or by criminal) to any greater extent than the whole Internet is a burglary tool.
One suggestion I would make…how about every time someone is the subject of a Registrant Search report;
1) They get a free copy of the report.
2) They get information about who purchased the report.
Keep the tool…increase the transparency.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:50 am
Jay, basically DomainTools is used mostly BY domainers, while the tool is used mostly AGAINST domainers.
You decide.
November 12th, 2007 at 5:58 am
I feel that listing a Registrant’s info. has always been wrong, to start with, but I guess that’s the way the system is structured so I am stuck with that.
And I also feel that a person should be able to make whatever (legal) software programs that they desire.
So, for ME, I guess it really boils down to this :
Just because you CAN do something, does that mean that you SHOULD do it ??
Someone COULD, in a LEGAL manner, of course, follow Jay W. around everywhere he goes and take pictures of him, documenting everything he publicly does and post them online, but that does NOT mean that it is the RIGHT thing to do or that one SHOULD do it !!
November 12th, 2007 at 6:15 am
Jay,
Put it to a vote!
Let all paying subscribers to DomainTools have one vote on this most important issue. If you are guest at DomainTools then put your money where your mouth is and join DomainTools as a paying member.
I would recommend the following.
1. Setup on online voting web page in the member’s area.
2. Schedule a voting period for a specific time interval.
3. Send out an Email announcement of the vote and the issues involved.
4. Publish the results of the vote.
If nothing else it may do wonders for your bottom line.
Mike
November 12th, 2007 at 6:15 am
I would definitely keep it up, because this is publicly available information. You’ve done nothing wrong by giving us a new — useful — way to search it, and if you don’t do it, someone else will. We’re going through the same arguments that people did when Google opened up the reverse phone number lookup. People were outraged that this information was available, but it always had been — just not in as useful a form. The underlying information was still public, and it was public because the owner wanted it to be.
The cost for making the information private is definitely a very significant concern, but there’s nothing you, Jay, can do about that. Maybe this will cause enough complaints, though, that the price of privacy will be driven way down.
As for the historical information, that may be a completely different beast altogether. I’m not sure.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:23 am
The question is not do we like or do we hate this tool, it is rather IS IT LEGAL OR NOT ?
1/ Unless Jay has 869 written consents (from 869 registrars), it seems obvious the tool is in complete violation of every registrars’ Terms Of Service (TOS) that states : “The compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Whois Data is expressly prohibited without our prior written consent”.
2/ People writing here in favor of RS are much too US centric.
For US citizens out there : you are 303 million in a 6.630 billion world (1/22).
US LAWS OR RULES ARE NOT WORLDWIDE LAWS.
Privacy is a much stronger concern in European countries.
In lots of these countries, data provided by Registrant Search is a privacy breach and it’s clearly ILLEGAL.
Still about the too US centric arguments, there are countries where PO boxes are only available to companies, NOT INDIVIDUALS.
LLCs are also a US concept and why incorporating now when you own a few valuable parked domains that you want to develop at a later time ?
And those saying domain owners wanting RS down should use Whois privacy services don’t understand exactly how the tool works.
It’s been said here SEVERAL times but it seems pro-RS definitely don’t want to hear : combined to “Whois History”, Whois Privacy services are worthless as RS will keep on retrieving every single domain a registrant owns, WHETHER WHOIS PRIVACY IS TURNED ON OR OFF !
Finally, saying other companies will make the same data available so we’d better keep Registrant Search up don’t make RS a more legitimate tool.
It’s illegal from the start and remains illegal whether or not others will do the same.
By the way, if Mark Monitor, Name.com, and Thompson and Thompson retrieve data the same way (compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Whois Data is expressly prohibited without registrars’ prior written consent) and use it in courts or UDRP then that’s nothing but data retrieved illegally.
That’s a procedural error and THE CASE SHOULD BE DECLARED VOID.
We have far enough to deal with the UDRP roulette defending valuable generic domains.
RS is an additional threat for large porfolio owners to be painted as squatters.
TAKE IT DOWN.
The answer to the initial question is that RS is clearly ILLEGAL.
Those who want the tool up are the ones that don’t own any single valuable domain.
They are either law firms or latecomers trying to get into the business one way or another (and the other way is rather unethically).
It makes me think of paparrazzi spying on and harassing celebrities.
Should these people own 10 valuable domains, they would instantly change their mind, bolt like jackrabbits and would be ready to kill anyone to have the tool taken down !
Jay, you have a good company providing nice tools like “Psychic Whois” but “Registrant Search” is seriously tarnishing your reputation.
We are not ducks and don’t anymore want to be a moving target.
Make the wise choice : declare it’s forever closed season for man hunting.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:36 am
Is the internet itself not dependant on the free flow of information? If you want to find out who registered a property can you freely search the deeds office. If you want to file a trade mark you can do an online search at most trade mark office websites, the same goes for company registrations. So why should domain name registrant information be any different. Provide the information and the domain name market will adapt, it might also cause the domain name industry to clean up its image.
November 12th, 2007 at 6:40 am
You do not have the right to SELL personal or company information to third parties.
Take it down
November 12th, 2007 at 7:09 am
Dear happydomainers,
To be very honest, I don’t care what laws you have in Europe as I never intend to be governed by them. What you have in Europe in not privacy laws but government monopolies on information. You can’t walk down a street in London without your every movement and facial expression being recorded by the state. Some privacy!
We Yanks designed the ARPANet to survive WWIII and the Internet will survive European lawyers and bureaucrats. So bring them on!
Mike
November 12th, 2007 at 7:20 am
Dear michael91806
The internet is used WORLDWIDE, not only by Yanks.
You should start to care about everyone’s law, culture and so on in the world, or internet governance will very quickly been taken out of the US government hands : see the World Internet Forum Opening in Brazil http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets/market_news/article.jsp?content=D8SQMA6G0
Do you want the internet controled by the United Nations ?
We don’t want it either so it’s time for Yanks to listen to voices outside the US… before it’s too late.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:24 am
I think this is one step in the right direction to show transparency. The “domain Investor” wants to be viewed by main street, wants them to be realized as real property, wants greater liquidity with their assets. This tool and others probably coming in the future are going to bring that.
The people against it:
Is it revealing of info that was “private”?
Yes
Who cares? If you owned any other valuable assets you would have to declare them and people would be able to find that information out.
The people against it:
It will increase the WIPO and TM lawyers exposure
I think most people who are worried are those that are own TM in their portfolio and i know that 85% of domainers own at least some.
The people against it:
But it could be sued against those in legitimate manner.
Response: Be realistic! Those vultures are going to attempt to take the name anyways and do whatever it takes to attempt to get it. We need clearer laws that protect all parties.
SUPPORT THE ICA….WHATEVER YOU THINK ABOUT IT….IT’S BETTER THAN NOTHING.
November 12th, 2007 at 7:57 am
Take Registrant Search down. It’s clearly in breach of WHOIS server Terms and Conditions. The only people it’s likely to help are lawyers looking to reverse-hijack domains by painting domainers as cybersquatters.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:11 am
Great tool! Don’t take it down.
Honest people should have nothing to be afraid of!
It is a good move towards the transparency of the market.
November 12th, 2007 at 8:36 am
The focus on assets, markets and money on here may be missing broader issues. Just saying all information should be free (this particular information is freely available on payment to Domaintools only) and that people should have nothing to hide is a bit simplistic.
Suppose someone had registered the domain Womensplace, owned it briefly, and donated it to a charity providing shelter to battered women. That individual did not use or profit from the domain and is no longer the registrant. Their details are, however, perpetually available to very dangerous individuals trying to find and punish the battered partners who have escaped them. So they will use all available resources to find the secret location of the shelter.
Now who wants to help them?
November 12th, 2007 at 9:04 am
I am sure this tool will be used by repressive governments like the one in China to track down disenters. Guess how many people are executed in China every year; tens of thousands. Relatives of people in the US whos disent are regulary imprisoned.
Activts around the world will be put at risk by this tool.
The argument that all info should be available is just dumb. All sorts of info is protected by law for example, medical, legal, criminal, tax, bank records etc.
I can’t go to the bank and say “give me my neighbors balance”
Reverse Domain Hijacking is on the rise, bigtime, and attorneys are coming after your generic domains. Multiple domain owners should fear this tool. It is very easy to be painted as a cybersqatter.
Consider this. Fully 1/3 of domains involving 3-letter .coms are lost by the respondent. So if you think your generics are safe think again.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:23 am
Everytime I see the the link to purchase a list of the domains I own or have owned, I get pissed. Some of the reasons are obvoius, even if the data is/was public. I don’t want the historical data used to gain an advantage or to violate my privacy.
To be blunt, I think it sucks and I will have to make sure all of my domains include privacy protection.
November 12th, 2007 at 9:53 am
Cartoonz is RIGHT ON with his assesment of the potential abuse the tool can create.
Never mind whether or not this info is available elswhere, this tool is way to easy to find/use for the average internet user.
The blatant text that shouts out; “THIS GUY OWNS 4000 DOMAINS” makes
him an easier target than any other tool out there.
PLEASE TAKE IT DOWN
November 12th, 2007 at 10:34 am
By putting up this tool you are betraying the trust of everyone who uses your whois tool. I go out of my way to use other sites that offer similar services before using your tools for the sole reason that the information is cached and then later sold. As a domainer who values privacy, using your whois service is like shooting myself in the foot.
I dont remember agreeing to have the information I was searching cached for future sale.
Check your own privacy policy under “What information do we collect?”
November 12th, 2007 at 10:46 am
It’s a tool making it easy for a Hijacker to Steal ALL of someone’s Portfolio instead of just one or two domains IMO - They may have stumbled upon a handful of domains in the past with a vulnerable email , Now they can possibly access thousands of domains at one time.
We all know how hard it is to get a domain returned through various registrars - Could you imagine half or All of your portfolio vanishing over night ?
Take it down IMO …. Mark
November 12th, 2007 at 11:06 am
Congratulations Jay for this wonderful tool.
“As The Ninth U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals ruled in 2003 that Internet domain names had the same rights to protection against conversion as other intangibles under California law. Judge Alex Kozinksi said registering domain names were no different than “staking a claim to a plot of land at the title office.” ”
So, if the Whois is a public data according to ICANN and the law, that information should be public in order to have transparency and a fair domain business around.
Keep up!
.. Maestrus
November 12th, 2007 at 11:41 am
Take it down. Yo