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TrafficZ vs Sedo parking
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October 8th, 2007 by 
Jay Westerdal
There are a lot of parking companies out there and two of the biggest are Sedo and TrafficZ. I would like to think we are in a small community where everyone gets along and there are no conflicts that can’t be solved by just talking it out. Tim Schumacher the CEO of Sedo registered TrafficZ.de and pointed it to a Sedo signup page for its own parking service, I think that crosses a few moral lines. This has got to be the most flattering thing I have seen. TrafficZ has been trying to resolve this conflict for a while and I hope it gets solved soon. I don’t like to publicly call people out but the two companies have been fighting over this for a while and I think it is a stupid conflict. Sedo should do the right thing and let’s move on. This industry is big enough for multiple companies.
TrafficZ.de
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Posted in Sedo, TrafficZ |
37 Comments »
October 8th, 2007 at 11:57 AM
Don’t tell me they are thinking to park typos of TrafficZ.com
to their sign up page as well.
October 8th, 2007 at 12:12 PM
TM infringement?
IMHO: obvious and egregious case.
I’m sorry to see this; my domains are parked with Sedo.
Ms Domainer
October 8th, 2007 at 1:44 PM
Makes you wonder if Sedo is honest enough to handle “your” parking payouts, doesn’t it?
October 8th, 2007 at 1:53 PM
Messing with the competition is all part of the game, it’s naive to think otherwise. Sedo have gambled that Trafficz are unlikely to sue them, that’s their call. Frankly, the .com is all that really matters and Sedo had to pay around $80,000 to get their hands on sedo.com
. They learned their lesson the hard way, you can hardly blame them for taking advantage of Trafficz oversight.
It’s also naive, in the extreme, to say “this industry is big enough for multiple companies”. Everyone knows the real interest of these companies is in eventually being bought out. As such, being number one in your segment is all that matters because only the leader will score that massive jackpot. Being second place generally means having to keep making your money the hard way.
Ms Domainer – I’ve been with Sedo for quite a few years. They’re nice people but fail to do things that would make their service much better. Having said that, the entire industry is pretty inefficient and my occasional experiments with other parking services have not impressed me either.
I’ve have noticed my earning go way down, with more clicks but far lower amounts per click. Frankly, I’m pretty suspicious of that and, really, I’ve got to get in gear and get my own sites up and running instead.
Donnacha
October 8th, 2007 at 2:08 PM
Ridiculously imature. It is illegal, too, eg passing off, misleading and deceptive conduct, trademark infringement etc. But more telling, is what this says about the values (or lack of) of the leadership team and, I think it is reasonable to assume, the culture of the Sedo business.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:01 PM
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions about trademarks and trademarked domains. At least under US law, there is nothing illegal about what SEDO is oding. TrafficZ failed to secure a domain, obviously TrafficZ knew their name before SEDO knew their name- so why didn’t they secure it at the time they picked the name?
I don’t see how this is dishonorable… I think SEDO should sell this domain to TrafficZ for a couple grand and move on… but literally they have simply claimed previously unstaked property.
I find it annoying when I think of good product names then check the domain and find that its parked by someone– when I would develop the site and probably make it worth a fair bit of money, I know that attempting to acquire the domain from them will cause money signs to appear in their eyes and that they won’t be reasonable… it sucks, but I move on– because no matter how much I like the name, they got their first and beat me to the punch.
Trademarked domains are the same thing– in fact, by NOT registering TrafficZ.de
in advance TrafficZ is the one who is in the wrong here.
To have a trademark you have to defend that trademark and show that you’ve taken reasonable steps to protect it. Spending a few bucks on a domain registration is proof positive that they weren’t defending the trademark.
People seem to think that a trademark comes in to being by simply declaring you own some word– If I declared I one the word “Domainer” and dont’ register domainer.com
and then someone later decides to register domainer.com
— they aren’t guilty of trademark infringement.
Its only trademark infringement if the person using a term is deceptively pretending to be the other entity.
In this case, the trafficz.de
page redirects to sedo.com
and its obviously not deceptive.
I think its time for trafficz to do the right thing and step up and just pay sedo for the domain.
What I find telling, though, is the lack of integrity shown by commentators who think that just because someone says they own a word they can act like a bully…. even when they have been wreckless about protecting that term.
October 8th, 2007 at 3:39 PM
“Passing off” is separate legal concept to trademark infringement.
Nevertheless, it is an indisputable fact that “trafficz” is an established international common law trademark (and registered in the US in classes 39 and 35 to Thought Convergence, Inc) as relates to domain name parking. If Sedo wanted to use it for promoting ice-cream, that would be fine, but they are not.
If Trafficz is stupid for not registered trafficz.de
, then this is also beside the point.
The industry needs market heavyweights like Sedo to be role-models for ethical behaviour.
October 8th, 2007 at 4:38 PM
But is Trafficz a trademark registered in Germany (.de) or has Trafficz a European Union community trademark (CTM)? The parking patterns for European ccTLDs tend to be more Euro-centric than those for US domains. Before jumping to conclusions about trademarks, it might be a good thing to check if they exist and in what jurisdiction they exist.
October 8th, 2007 at 5:39 PM
A registered trademark is not in-itself a defense against “passing off”.
I would find it hard to believe that Trafficz could not establish that they have met the legal test for establishing and maintaining their trademark in Germany (whether it is registered or not makes little difference), ie although I do not know, I suggest that Trafficz have .de customers, and have had them well before Sedo was in the parking busieness, particularly given that Trafficz were the first parking program to pay clicks from non-US-based IPs (??).
Again, if Sedo parked the domain, they may have a defense, but they did not, they directed the name to their parking offer.
October 8th, 2007 at 5:39 PM
fluxotron, are you an attorney? A TM attorney? If you aren’t, everything you just said is absolute crap. TM holders don’t have to “buy” every ccTLD or TLD to control their trademark, but they do have to fight to protect it when someone tries to take their name. I don’t know what Ammar is doing to work out this issue, but for Sedo to own this amazes me. Professional courtesy would mandate a nice gesture by Sedo by giving this domain to Trafficz as a gift or ask for a thousand. Sedo must be pulling in some good traffic with the domain and converting it if they’re hanging on to it, but it is definitely a TM infringement, and blatant. They’re sucking off TZ’s TM. I don’t know anyone in this business with a modicum of decency who would condone what Sedo is doing with Trafficz.de
. I’m surprised by this article.
October 8th, 2007 at 6:42 PM
It is just appalling when the domaining community pulls together to agree on a code of conduct to bridge gap with the mainstream business something like this could come up from an insider company like SEDO, which is supposed to know a thing or two about domaining.
Thumbs down to SEDO ! More to blog on the Villain SEDO soon.
Keep an eye on them Jay W., domainers need to distance themselves and condemn such behavior, regardless where it’s coming from.
crinux.com
October 8th, 2007 at 8:05 PM
dentalpro,
Now I *DO* wonder about how Sedo pays out.
Jay, do you have that parking site worked out yet?
Ms Domainer
October 8th, 2007 at 9:43 PM
Apparently you can buy trafficz.com
at Sedo too…
http://www.sedo.com/search/details.php4?language=us&domain=trafficz.com&partnerid=17505
October 9th, 2007 at 3:03 AM
This could be an expensive $3,000 in terms of Sedo’s reputation
The bottom line in business ethics is that if you’re not sure if something is right or not – then it probably isn’t right.
Enough of Sedo’s customers have expressed doubts on this blog that it’s, at best, sharp practice. Sedo should end this now before their reputation takes a bit hit.
October 9th, 2007 at 7:50 AM
LOL
I cannot believe Tim has been as stupid I have been myself here:
After SEDO purchased GreatDomains.com
I was so upset that I purchased GreatestDomains.com
just for the pleasure to say what you can read in this parked page (the promotion of PremiumDomains.com
vs GreatDomains.com
)
This only proves that both we are humans so we know to be stupid.
And because we are humans tehn I like to think we also know to be clever and forget:
So Tim, if you are interested by GreatestDomains.com
then the name is for sale to you at a special low price.
And do the same to TrafficZ.
…
October 9th, 2007 at 11:43 AM
Here’s a possibility: maybe Sedo is in the process of buying out TrafficZ (or visa versa); otherwise, I just can’t quite figure out why a successful company would do so much harm to its reputation, which has been pretty good up until now.
It just seems petty and small.
Ms Domainer
October 9th, 2007 at 2:44 PM
Are you implying that SEDO is arrogant? No need to imply…
October 9th, 2007 at 4:26 PM
SEDO
Shameless Evil Domain Organization
October 9th, 2007 at 6:07 PM
WOW and i was just about to move a bunch of Domains there
not happy with my current service i wonder what would really happen if they were audited all these parking companies some do pretty shady things and the Owners by actions and words(met one) seem to be pretty arrogant JAY PLEASE NEVER GET THAT WAY some of us here are Baby Domainers we appreciate these blogs more than you know think ill skip this one on my new site how can we ever hope for fair Domain Laws if we go out of our way to do this to each other much less dealing with Trademark Holders that dont have a clue this might have been funny like another said if say a not related site was there but to send to SEDO ? thats at the very least seems to violate the spirit of Domaining and giving ammo to the people that want to CONTROL the domaining industry with harsh laws.It
could of been Great Publicity for Domaining if they could of done it to show the value of getting Foreign Domains and Trademarks there as well as a fair resolution too bad they sent it to SEDO.
October 9th, 2007 at 10:51 PM
You’re all on drugs!
SEDO are just doing what everyone else has been doing for years.
Forget about being a domainer for a second (and what a joke that is when people who live in exotic island locations, or programmers, have manipulated the system so that you’ll never make the bucks that they’re making) and understand that this is a business, and in business, spoils go to the quickest/baddest/smartest/..fill in your own here.
And what about the guys who own and ppc YOUR business name?
And what about the guys who own and manipulate registrars?
And what about the incompetency of ICANN to do anything about it all?
I don’t like it either, and have personally suffered by being beaten to the punch on many occasions, but all this blustering and condemnation is a joke.
I’d be really annoyed…if I had the time.
October 10th, 2007 at 1:57 AM
The number two TLD on planet Earth is the German ccTLD DE. Germans use it more than COM. SEDO is a German company and knows this fact to be true. By stealing this domain, they are trying to stop TrafficZ from ever becoming a power in this country. I wonder how many customers TrafficZ has lost through this cheap shot. There is no doubt that a good lawyer is going to be able to get this domain back for TrafficZ. The only questions is how much compensation is SEDO going to have to pay for this absolutely unprofessional behavior.
SEDO needs to give the domain back immediately!
It is really obvious that SEDO isn’t against playing dirty. It makes me really wonder if they play fair in others realms as well. If they are willing to blatantly steal from a competitor, it is reasonable to assume that they steal from their customers as well.
October 10th, 2007 at 6:20 AM
I don’t see how this is dishonorable… I think SEDO should sell this domain to TrafficZ for a couple grand and move on… but literally they have simply claimed previously unstaked property.
I find it annoying when I think of good product names then check the domain and find that its parked by someone– when I would develop the site and probably make it worth a fair bit of money, I know that attempting to acquire the domain from them will cause money signs to appear in their eyes and that they won’t be reasonable… it sucks, but I move on– because no matter how much I like the name, they got their first and beat me to the punch.
Trademarked domains are the same thing– in fact, by NOT registering TrafficZ.de
in advance TrafficZ is the one who is in the wrong here.
To have a trademark you have to defend that trademark and show that you’ve taken reasonable steps to protect it. Spending a few bucks on a domain registration is proof positive that they weren’t defending the trademark.this
site have replica goods http://www.buychinawholesale.co.uk
People seem to think that a trademark comes in to being by simply declaring you own some word– If I declared I one the word “Domainer” and dont’ register domainer.com
and then someone later decides to register domainer.com
— they aren’t guilty of trademark infringement.
Its only trademark infringement if the person using a term is de
October 10th, 2007 at 9:44 AM
What ever happened to the concept of trying to occupy the higher moral ground? Ethics and accountability in business have been front and centre in the traditional business news for the last few years. Domain investment has been trying to shake the snake-oil salesman cybersquatter image, and has of late moved into the business mainstream in a more positive light. Then along comes Sedo with this!
What would Sedo do now if contacted by another TM holder, asking them to take down a domainer’s page because of perceived TM conflicts? No moral high ground here for Sedo, just a swamp of their own making.
October 10th, 2007 at 1:42 PM
Those saying “they’re just doing the same as people who reg and park TMs” are missing the point.
a couple of years ago. They seem to think they have the right to do as they please “in private” while preaching about the value of generics and accountability in public.
This is not just regging the name and directing it to a page of advertising – where TrafficZ would have as much chance as anyone to bid on traffic to go to their page if they so desired.
This is directing the TM name to their own (competitive) service. Not only this, but all in the name of the CEO. Not exactly indicative of the “domaining community” Sedo claim to be striving towards, but then again not something that you’d put past Sedo’s management if you’ve had to deal with them in the past.
Schumacher also registered name-drive.de
October 10th, 2007 at 3:17 PM
Well, limeydomainer, it’s not very private if we all know about it.
October 10th, 2007 at 5:04 PM
Sedo was the first parking service I used. I’m now mostly with trafficZ, Bodis, and here! Sedo sucked the joy out of life in what I earned there, but TrafficZ gave me hope again and more will to live.
Stupid companies often do things like this that they don’t see coming and hurts them more than anything they would have gained.
But I don’t want to think about what might happen if Sedo bought TrafficZ. I hate you for suggesting that…!!!
October 10th, 2007 at 7:20 PM
It’s juvenile. Sounds like there’s a personal beef there, like Sedo is just trying to get on TrafficZ’s nerves. I think they need a therapy session.
October 10th, 2007 at 11:06 PM
Dear Jay Westerdal, Kevin Vu and DomainTools.com
readers,
I would like to respond to the recent discussion regarding Sedo’s registration of the domain name TrafficZ.de
. It is Sedo’s intention to resolve this “conflict” in the shortest time possible, and we hope do to that with a simple proposal at the end of this letter.
It is important to me, however, to clarify a few key unsubstantiated points raised in the discussion about TrafficZ.de
, because they run counter to everything Sedo believes in and practices as a company. An employee of Sedo registered the domain name TrafficZ.de
nearly four years ago. In the meantime, I have personally met with TrafficZ’s CEO at industry conferences and even and a meeting at their office in Los Angeles and he has never previously requested the name be transferred. Therefore, I was frankly surprised to see an active public discussion on this issue before I had the opportunity to address it with either DomainTools.com
editors or TrafficZ management, which would have been more straightforward.
Sedo does not advocate trademark infringement or cybersquatting of any kind, and has been an industry leader in combating these problems. The domain name in question is one of many “traffic” related domains Sedo uses in its marketing efforts and was not registered with the intent to combat or steal traffic from any specific competitors, but rather as part of Sedo’s larger Web marketing efforts to secure “traffic” related domains… which is something every “Domainer” should understand with all their heart
I am publically extending an invitation to TrafficZ’s management to contact me directly to begin immediate transfer of the domain. Kevin, you have my business card, simply call me at any time. Additionally, if there are any additional questions from DomainTools.com
editors or readers, I encourage you to contact me at tim@sedo.com at any time.
I look forward to a continuing domain industry dialogue to move the entire market forward.
Best Regards,
Tim Schumacher
CEO Sedo.com
http://www.sedo.com
October 11th, 2007 at 4:47 AM
Never underestimate the power of blog. There’s a nice, easy resolution for you.
On another note, and as I have nothing to do at work, I did find it strange that, if you go through Traffic domains with the letters of the alphabet after them – i.e. TrafficA.de
, TrafficB.de
, TrafficC.de
, then only TrafficA, TrafficK, TrfficO, TrafficQ, TrafficS and TrafficX are taken in the .de space, none by a Sedo employee. It does seem somewhat coincidental that the only “traffic” related domain Sedo’s marketing efforts concentrated on were with a Z. An otherwise senseless word which happens to be one of their direct competitors.
Probably just a strange quirk of the internet…
Glad to see a resolution will be made shortly. I’m sure you guys can sort it out at the TRAFFIC show in Miami. It would be rather apt.
October 11th, 2007 at 9:44 AM
Mr. Schumacher:
In your comment above, it sounds like your blaming a rogue employee for this entire episode — instead of being a man and taking responsibility yourself.
My favorite line:
“The domain name in question is one of many “traffic” related domains Sedo uses in its marketing efforts and was not registered with the intent to combat or steal traffic from any specific competitors, but rather as part of Sedo’s larger Web marketing efforts to secure “traffic” related domains…which is something every “Domainer” should understand with all their heart”
Honestly, do you think anyone here believes that for one second? Remember who your audience is. We know every trick in the book so don’t try to pass that bullshit off on us. I’d expect that type of reasoning from a small time hoarder, not the CEO of a major parking company.
You’re embarrassing the entire industry… and that’s something that most of us can accomplish without any additional help.
October 11th, 2007 at 12:02 PM
Re: Schumacher letter:
Huh? This domain was registered 4 years ago, and the stated intent is to “settle this in the shortest time possible”?
Also, only half a sentence here..”an employee of Sedo registered the domain name Trafficz.de
nearly four years ago..” and the rest of that statement is what? Sedo didn’t know about it? We didn’t mean to point it to a park page? It’s against company policy?
October 19th, 2007 at 4:51 PM
Dear DomainTools community,
I would like to take this opportunity to publicly put this matter to rest. Tim and I had a very nice conversation about this issue last week (at the T.R.A.F.F.I.C. conference). Tim assured me that he was completely unaware of Sedo’s registration and use of the TrafficZ.de
domain name. He also apologized for the subsequent miscommunications that led to this outcome. We are all extremely busy people, so it’s completely understandable how this could have simply slipped through the cracks. In order to make sure that nothing like this ever happens again, we’ve all agreed to add each other’s email addresses to our SPAM filters 
What’s more important, though, is that Sedo management is doing the right thing and has agreed to transfer the domain back to us immediately.
I would like everybody to know that we have the utmost respect for Tim, Matt and the entire Sedo team, and we have no hard feelings whatsoever regarding this matter. As we all know, there is already way too much bad blood and animosity in our industry, and I would prefer that we not contribute to that trend.
I would also like to thank Jay for continuing to advocate professionalism and integrity within our industry… this is something that we all need to promote.
Finally, just to set the record straight, Sedo is NOT going to be acquiring TrafficZ anytime soon… but, who knows, we may decide to buy them next year
If anybody here has any comments, questions or suggestions about TrafficZ (or the domain industry in general), please feel free to email me directly at ammar [at] TrafficZ.com
.
Very truly yours,
Ammar Kubba
TrafficZ.com
| LeaseThis.com
| Idea.net
October 20th, 2007 at 7:06 PM
No, not an attorney, just someone who pays more attention to what the law actually says than to what misinformed (but, of course, very arrogant) people say on the internet.
October 31st, 2007 at 10:47 AM
I park my names at SEDO, so this email was very confusing to me. Can anybody tell me if this is a phishing email or really from TrafficZ, where I don’t recall parking any names.
Dear valued TrafficZ Client:
We hope this email finds you well. We would like to take this opportunity to ensure that we have the most current and accurate payment information for each of our clients. At your earliest convenience, please complete and return the attached W-9 form. This form merely provides us with your Social Security Number or Federal Employer Identification Number. As you are undoubtedly aware, we are legally required to obtain this information to make reportable payments to you.
Please note that this request is intended for our U.S. clients. If you believe you have received this message in error please contact us.
You may return this form by the means most convenient to you but fax or email is preferred. We also ask that you clearly indicate your TrafficZ username when returning this form. If returning by email, please send to accounting@trafficz.com. If this form is not completed and returned by December 31, 2007, we will be forced to withhold payments due on your account until we receive this form. Obliviously, we do not want to do that. J
We thank you in anticipation of your cooperation and speedy attention to this email. If you have any questions or concerns regarding this matter, please feel free to contact us at accounting@TrafficZ.com.
Best regards,
Lizzy Quiroga
______________________________________
Lizzy Quiroga
Client Relations Manager
Thought Convergence, Inc. | TrafficZ
11300 W. Olympic Boulevard
Suite 900
Los Angeles, California 90064
lizzy@ThoughtConvergence.com
lizzy@TrafficZ.com
November 16th, 2007 at 8:04 AM
sounds like you have an account with them, must have parked some names in the past and forgot. not phishing, genuine.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:58 AM
Once I found out about Tim Schumacher the CEO of Sedo did this unprofessional conduct of business, I pulled all my domains out from Sedo and canceled my account. No more business with Sedo.